I watched the fist two episodes this weekend (did not watch anymore football after Friday night, could not bring myself to watch the other games) and I thought it was amazing.

Some of you are likely more versed in Tolkien and some of the books that this comes from so I am hoping you can shed some light for the rest of us on some of what is in this show which I believe takes place 2000 years before the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.

One big question I have is what are the traveling halfling species? Are they a precursor to Hobbits or another species entirely?

I watched the first two episodes yesterday. I'm not the most knowledgeable about Tolkien's universe, but I've enjoyed the series!

I think the "half foot" people are the Hobbits' ancestors. One of the last names is Brandyfoot which is eerily similar to the Brandywine River that passes through the Shire. After a quick Google search "Brandywine" is the Hobbit version of the elvish name for the same river.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

I think you are likely right. I remember that Smegal/Golem was supposed to come from a "hobbit-like" species IIRC, so I guess they could be the early Hobbits, maybe before they settle in the Shire and are basically just traveling gypsies in this series.

Also, WTF is up with dude that came down in the comment?

The comet? Yea still trying to figure that out since I haven't done much reading of Tolkien's world outside of The Hobbit and starting the Fellowship. Do you think he could be a precursor to the wizards? Could've been sent down kinda like how Gandalf was brought back.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

That might be the case. Dude obviously has some power. Not sure how old Saruman or Gandalf are supposed to be, but I don't think it would be either of them, I don't think they are 2000 years old.

I believe the guy in the comet is Gandalf. If I remember correctly all of the wizards showed up on middle earth in the second age as old men and initially did not remember there own name or purpose.

Gandalf and Saruman are Maiar spirits in the Middle Earth mythology, so basically same level as Sauron.

I forget when they come in the scene, it's been a long time since I read that, but safe to say they've been around a LONG time.

They are basically minor gods (Maia) who help the major gods (Valar). Pretty sure they all there from the beginning of creation by Eru Illuvatar (the one above all) as described in The Silmarillion. I'm 💯 this is Gandalf as well. Wished they had gone more into the events of the First Age but really enjoyed it.

Yeah I couldn't recall if the Istari (the Wizards) were around since the beginning or were summoned later to help Middle Earth against Sauron.

I also think it's Gandalf, but the first time he is mentioned as showing up in Middle Earth was the Third Age, so who knows

Maia can take all different kinds of forms and names-for example Sauron appears as an extremely beautiful angel that eventually deceives Celebrimbor (sp?) into creating the one ring-its likely he has already been deceived as of episode 2 when he appears for the first time

Yeah, in the First and Second age he was one of the Maiar in Valinor, and called Olorin. He was sent by the Valar (major gods) with other wizards (Istari) in the Third age to oppose Sauron.

The show starts at the beginning of the Second Age, so its possible the writers are tweaking the timeline a bit by having him show up earlier. Also possible, as mentioned above, that he is another Maiar, whose story isn't outlined in the Appendices or the Silmarillion. But his traits and confusion are in line with what happened to the Istari when they arrived in Middle Earth, so perhaps artistic liscence was taken to create a new character to help combat the enemy in the second age. Maybe he will be explained as like an Istari Beta.

Balrogs are Maiar that fell under Morgoth/Sauron's control.

I am looking forward to watching it with HokieEnginerd. We were going to watch it Sunday or yesterday but forgot. Maybe Mini-LancerHokie will end up watching too, she read The Hobbit on her own for the first time recently.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

I enjoyed the first two episodes. I am not well versed in lore outside of LoTR and the Hobbit and I've read lots of complaints that it is really divorced of Tolkien's world, but since I am not so close to it, it doesn't really bother me that much. Especially since this series won't really touch on the events of LotR and the Hobbit directly. I'm sure there are plenty of superfans who feel differently though.

After so much of the fantasy genre in film has been just poorly made and not internally consistent at all, I'm willing to sacrifice some faithfulness to the material if the end product is worth watching. Really, the Hobbit movies were so bad that this series is going to be graded on a bit of a curve.

It's actually not very divorced from Tolkien at all (so far).

These people are upset about diverse casting and short-haired elves. Neither of which did Tolkien take a strong stance on in his books. The bigger casting blunder IMO (and with what's actually written in a book) is casting Galadriel and Elrond to appear the same age with Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad being much older. If anything Galadriel should appear similar in age to Gil-Galad while Celebrimbor and Elrond should be closer in age.

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I have also seen some people upset that Durin's wife did not have a full beard. I found that funny.

People just look for an excuse to be upset.

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I was pretty upset with that. Completely took me out of the episode /s

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While this is a valid criticism, I understand why the showrunners went a different direction here lol

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Apparently the Tolkien estate had veto power over certain plot points as part of the agreement to make the show in the first place-perhaps this was a casualty of that

I'm really enjoying the show so far (with what little has happened). It's beautiful, well acted, and the vibe has been right.

The only minor break in the canon so far is treating the return to valinor like it is a gift from the king. Not really the case in the books. I'm slightly concerned about the meteor man plot line. IIRC Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast don't arrive in M.E till the 3rd age. He may be a blue wizard but even still, the major known plot points from the books do not involve the istari (wizards) at all. It's a little weird seeing middle earth with the pacing of a show instead of a feature film.

Glad I'm not seeing the overly toxic takes here. The show is good (so far) but it seems the combination of it being Amazon and the mere inclusion of diversity within the cast caused lots of people to write it off entirely before it even aired. Being a massive hater seems to be the trendy thing to do in online fanbases these days.

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Yeah the online hate over diversity casting for this show, as well as House of the Dragon, is very unfortunate and sadly also very predictable in this day and age. The internet truly amplifies the worst of humanity.

Yea, it's honestly sad that simply seeing a black Harfoot invokes rage in people and immediately ruins the show for them when the books literally say Harfoots are darker in skin color and hair.

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I get the feeling that such people are often full of rage about everything and don't enjoy a lot of things.

The casting doesn't bother me in the least. I will say though that overly diverse casting was an issue for me in the mess that was the Wheel of Time show.

And the only reason for that is that anyone that has read WoT knows that Robert Jordan was addicted to describing how a character looked (and what they were wearing all the time) in exquisite detail to the point of being a bit over indulgent. To see characters that were so different in appearance was an actual problem that had nothing to do with being too "woke" or anything like that. After reading physical descriptions of these characters countless times over thousands of pages, just made it very difficult to connect to them in the show.

You might want to go back and re-read some of the early character descriptions because the casting of the show is one of the least problematic departures from the source material. Really, Rosamund Pike's height is the biggest discrepancy casting-wise for the main cast and it isn't really an important one.

The story issues are another matter.

I think Rosamund Pike and her icy demeanor are a perfect fit for Moraine.

As for the other characters, the original descriptions are pretty clear and consistent on Two Rivers folks having a similar appearance except for Rand specifically. It's why Elayne, when meeting them all for the first time, pulls down Rand's sleeve to see that his arms aren't tan and pegs him from not being someone originally from that area.

You are correct it's a small problem in light of the show as a whole, but when you have a mess like that even small problems are noticeable.

Agreed--I think if they nailed one casting choice it was Rosamund Pike as Moiraine. I'm not sure about her height or whatever, but I'm currently reading Wheel of Time for the first time ever (currently on book 5) and I think that pick was a home run. The guy who plays (errr..."played" because evidently he left the show) Mat was also really good imo. As far as the other main characters, they might not look like they are described in the book but I think they play the part very similar to the book versions of their characters. Honestly I feel like the worst one unfortunately is Rand haha. He feels way more whiney on the show for some reason.

Yeah the actual characters themselves were close. Nynaeve was certainly like that in terms of attitude and strength. Perrin was close, although he certainly wasn't married let alone killing his wife in the books. I thought that was a really strange choice to exhibit his animalistic nature due to being a wolf brother. Seemed way out of character, especially how loyal he is to his actual wife later in the books.

Mat is a trickster, but I think they made him a bit more malevolent and craven in the show than his character actually was under the influence of the dagger. He was by far my favorite book character, and I didn't like him very much in the show.

The "gift" of the return to Valinor made feel like they were dying.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

I didnt read much about it, and only really saw the trailers. I was prepared for disappointment based on those clips though, and some initial reactions from friends a couple of days before I got to sit down and watch it.

But I love it so far. The neat thing about Lord of the Rings is it takes place at the end of the time of the higher beings, where middle earth (which becomes our earth) is becoming only inhabited by humans. Peter Jacksons movies brought home that feeling so well visually. The fellowship was constantly hiding out, or passing through ruins that were countless centuries old. You could sense that ancient peoples with crafts and magic beyond those in the contemporary story were responsible for creating those relics. You knew that eons had passed, and that knowledge had been lost. Great civilizations diminished by war. In the Rings of Power you get to see some of those older civilizations (elves and dwarves) in all their glory. The visuals are incredible. And I don't mind a little slower developing plot if there's backstory being built.

Meteor man definitely should not be Gandalf, as he (and the other 4 wizards) didn't arrive until the Third Age.

I've seen some good theorycrafting that meteor man is actually Sauron. That would be a hell of a reveal down the road, but I'm not sure how the timing works out.

The Wizards most definitely didn't come to Middle Earth until we'll into the third age after it was feared Sauron was already back.

We watched the first episode last night. The crash site with the Meteor Man at the end looked like the Eye...

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

That has to be a red herring.

Or could be adding to the idea that Sauron truly has not been defeated.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Dude sick username, welcome aboard!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Judging by the timeline that's canon to this point, Sauron is already back and starting construction on his fortress by this time in the Second Age. The Stranger might be the biggest question mark for this first season.

Love it so far. Only real issue is where is Galadriel's husband and child? I figured that would have come up with the whole being sent back across the sea and all that. Otherwise, really interested in where they take this.

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Agreed. I assume they will show up, but there is definitely some license being taken with Galadriel's story. In the literature she more or less stayed in Middle Earth after the War of the Jewels because she liked being a big fish in a small pond.

There are definitely more knowledgable Tolkien experts than I am. But I did read The Hobbit as a small child, first read The Lord of the Rings in 8th grade (and subsequently re-read them at least 3 more times), and finally tackled the Silmarillion in college (with one re-read later). If that sounds like I'm bragging, I am. And if that sounds sad, it is.

First my quick take on the "controversy" and negative reactions from the interwebs: Completely ignore them. Like totally ignore all of it. There are some liberties taken, plot-wise. And yes, there are (gasp!) some brown folks playing some new major characters. But the Second Age when the show takes place is easily the most sparsely fleshed-out Age in Tolkien's work, and Amazon specifically only has rights to cover the Second Age.

Objectively speaking, the show has beautiful cinematography, the writing is good-to-excellent, and it's well cast and acted. Despite only comprising about 25 pages of Tolkien's novels, there are some epic events that take place in the 2nd Age, so there's plenty of awesome plot material to cover over the 5 seasons of the show. Subjectively speaking, I've really enjoyed the first two episodes. As a Tolkien fan, I'm not disappointed by any aspect of the show so far. So bottom line is, if you want to watch the show, great. If you don't, that's cool too.

As for some specific questions/theories people have posted so far, here are my takes:

--The Harfoots are clearly Hobbit precursors. Hobbits (more often referred to as Halflings in the books) are never mentioned in the 2nd Age. But they have to come from somewhere, right? And as reclusive as they are in the show, it makes sense they could have been left out of the history of that era. Side note: I wasn't thrilled about there being Hobbits in the show, but the actress playing the main Hobbit Nori is fantastic, and those scenes have been a real pleasant surprise.

--"Meteor Man" (officially called The Stranger in the credits) is a total mystery. He clearly shows Gandalf-ish traits, and could be any of the Istari (Wizards). But while the Wizards are lesser gods who existed since the beginning of time, they were not sent to Middle-Earth until about 1000 years into the 3rd age. Some have theorized that Meteor Man is Sauron (the flames surrounding him are cool like the elves' torches at the evil fortress at the beginning of the first episode), and some have predicted he's a Wizard (because, well, he looks and acts like a Wizard). But I have no idea.

--Galadriel is ancient in the LoTR movies. They take place in 3019 of the Third Age, while the Second Age ends with Sauron being defeated by the Last Alliance of Elves and Men (the first scene of the movies) in 3441 of the second age. Galadriel was born in the FIRST Age, which makes her a minimum of ~6,500 years old in the movies (my guess is she's closer to 10,000 years old). She is one of the most important characters in Tolkien's universe, and there is a lot of trepidation about how she'll be portrayed in the show. That's probably the most legit worry/criticism from Tolkien geeks, although I personally don't share that concern.

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So far the show has been great. Especially given that you know the end fate of 50% of the characters. I'm still invested in the how they get there though which says a lot about the writing through the first three episodes. My only nitpicks are the over use of slow motion and the lack of levity any point (outside of brief moments with Durin). To me one of the great things about Tolkien stuff is how sneakily funny it can be at times and I'd like to see some of that

I have nothing to base this off of except a weird gut feeling but. . . Somehow I feel like Halbrand ends up as the Witch King. He just has a witch-kingy vibe to him. Obviously after he's corrupted by one of the rings given to men but still.

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